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	<title>Comments on: How to vote against the bailout</title>
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	<description>The No-B.S. Guide to Building Real Wealth in Your Self-Directed IRA or Solo 401k</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nabers</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffnabers.com/2008/10/03/how-to-vote-against-the-bailout/comment-page-1/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nabers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nabersgroup.wordpress.com/?p=331#comment-903</guid>
		<description>Joe, sorry for the delayed approval. Your comment ended up in a spam filter, and I only check that every few weeks. I guess my spam filter could tell that you are my competitor plugging yourself to my audience. Ha, I kid, I&#039;ve approved it now that I see it.

I offer a couple of points:

26 RUBLES PER DOLLAR TODAY...
I&#039;m not a Ruble expert, but it&#039;s important to note that the ratio of one currency to another doesn&#039;t directly indicate it&#039;s strength or weakness. It&#039;s just a ratio. It&#039;s like a stock split, it just changes the math, but not the value. When a stock splits the value doesn&#039;t go up; the shareholders don&#039;t double their wealth - they just double a number on a piece of paper and it&#039;s not their wealth, even if measured in dollars.

For example, let&#039;s imagine that we re-pegged the US dollar to gold and said that exactly $840 will buy an ounce of gold. Then let&#039;s say we decided to quadruple everyone&#039;s money. All of our bank account balances, stock balances, mortgage debt quadruples - everything. Our currency isn&#039;t any weaker or stronger. The US dollar would then be fixed as $3360 always buys an ounce of gold. The ratio of dollars to many other currencies would change (it would take more dollars to be equal to the other currencies than previously), but the fact that it&#039;s pegged to gold makes it a stable currency. It&#039;s value is consistent. We would eventually have the world&#039;s strongest currency because there would be no debasement/inflation. The side effect is that we wouldn&#039;t really have bubbles and manias, there wouldn&#039;t be as much real estate development and expansion (or &quot;economic expansion&quot; in general) because we would have a supply-side cap of money rather than an unlimited amount of money based on lending. We would be an asset based society that rewards actual success rather than a debt-based society that builds its wealth by taking it from the people.

An asset-based society isn&#039;t really wanted by most powerful people. For instance, if you run a corporation that sells a product that people don&#039;t have a strong desire or necessity for, then in an asset-based society you wouldn&#039;t really sell them. In a debt-based society, people will buy your product using debt - by selling their future time simply because they don&#039;t understand the true ramifications of their decision.

In an asset-based society, it&#039;s much harder to start and run a successful business... the only products and services that will sell well are those that people want so much that they will buy them with their actual money. In a debt-based society, people just have to say &quot;yes&quot; to buy something. The decision itself is the form of payment. Unfortunately, that decision is also the forfeiture of future time in their life that could be spent doing enjoyable activities. Instead, the debt-funded &quot;yes&quot; sayer will be working with their future time because they have to in order to fulfill their &quot;yes&quot; obligations. Most everyone should be in agreement that a new approach to education is needed.

Keep in mind, being &quot;Pro-Dollar&quot; may be anti-American. American principles include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Anything that interferes with our personal wealth is interfering with our liberty and pursuit of happiness. You should consider becoming Pro-American exclusively. This means believing that if 300 million Americans were to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness without monetary interference... the only losers would be bureaucrats and elitists.

If the dollars got sucked out of the US banking system, the banks would get crushed and individual wealth would be preserved. To leave dollars in the US banking is to crush individual wealth while preserving the banks. Once clearly grasped, it becomes a matter of recognizing whether your primary wealth position is one of being an individual or a bank. Then a simple, clear decision can be made whether to preserve your personal wealth or the banking system.

Don&#039;t get distracted by the facade economy that everyone seems to be talking about - financial institutions. The real economy is personal wealth. If a Fortune 500 company crashes and you don&#039;t own it, you aren&#039;t affected. If the banking system implodes and you don&#039;t own it or deposit in it, you aren&#039;t affected. If all kinds of big companies and banks topple over, and we all have our personal wealth preserved, then the &quot;real economy&quot; (the wealth of the people) has been preserved. Each individual must make the choice between preserving the institutional economy or the people&#039;s economy. Indecision and inaction is a choice in itself that preserves the institutional economy rather than the people&#039;s economy.

These are exciting times in that we have all been shaken up enough to think about protecting ourselves, our communities, our friends, and our families. We can thrive by returning to the principles that made us the world&#039;s most powerful and wealthy country in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, sorry for the delayed approval. Your comment ended up in a spam filter, and I only check that every few weeks. I guess my spam filter could tell that you are my competitor plugging yourself to my audience. Ha, I kid, I&#8217;ve approved it now that I see it.</p>
<p>I offer a couple of points:</p>
<p>26 RUBLES PER DOLLAR TODAY&#8230;<br />
I&#8217;m not a Ruble expert, but it&#8217;s important to note that the ratio of one currency to another doesn&#8217;t directly indicate it&#8217;s strength or weakness. It&#8217;s just a ratio. It&#8217;s like a stock split, it just changes the math, but not the value. When a stock splits the value doesn&#8217;t go up; the shareholders don&#8217;t double their wealth &#8211; they just double a number on a piece of paper and it&#8217;s not their wealth, even if measured in dollars.</p>
<p>For example, let&#8217;s imagine that we re-pegged the US dollar to gold and said that exactly $840 will buy an ounce of gold. Then let&#8217;s say we decided to quadruple everyone&#8217;s money. All of our bank account balances, stock balances, mortgage debt quadruples &#8211; everything. Our currency isn&#8217;t any weaker or stronger. The US dollar would then be fixed as $3360 always buys an ounce of gold. The ratio of dollars to many other currencies would change (it would take more dollars to be equal to the other currencies than previously), but the fact that it&#8217;s pegged to gold makes it a stable currency. It&#8217;s value is consistent. We would eventually have the world&#8217;s strongest currency because there would be no debasement/inflation. The side effect is that we wouldn&#8217;t really have bubbles and manias, there wouldn&#8217;t be as much real estate development and expansion (or &#8220;economic expansion&#8221; in general) because we would have a supply-side cap of money rather than an unlimited amount of money based on lending. We would be an asset based society that rewards actual success rather than a debt-based society that builds its wealth by taking it from the people.</p>
<p>An asset-based society isn&#8217;t really wanted by most powerful people. For instance, if you run a corporation that sells a product that people don&#8217;t have a strong desire or necessity for, then in an asset-based society you wouldn&#8217;t really sell them. In a debt-based society, people will buy your product using debt &#8211; by selling their future time simply because they don&#8217;t understand the true ramifications of their decision.</p>
<p>In an asset-based society, it&#8217;s much harder to start and run a successful business&#8230; the only products and services that will sell well are those that people want so much that they will buy them with their actual money. In a debt-based society, people just have to say &#8220;yes&#8221; to buy something. The decision itself is the form of payment. Unfortunately, that decision is also the forfeiture of future time in their life that could be spent doing enjoyable activities. Instead, the debt-funded &#8220;yes&#8221; sayer will be working with their future time because they have to in order to fulfill their &#8220;yes&#8221; obligations. Most everyone should be in agreement that a new approach to education is needed.</p>
<p>Keep in mind, being &#8220;Pro-Dollar&#8221; may be anti-American. American principles include life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Anything that interferes with our personal wealth is interfering with our liberty and pursuit of happiness. You should consider becoming Pro-American exclusively. This means believing that if 300 million Americans were to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness without monetary interference&#8230; the only losers would be bureaucrats and elitists.</p>
<p>If the dollars got sucked out of the US banking system, the banks would get crushed and individual wealth would be preserved. To leave dollars in the US banking is to crush individual wealth while preserving the banks. Once clearly grasped, it becomes a matter of recognizing whether your primary wealth position is one of being an individual or a bank. Then a simple, clear decision can be made whether to preserve your personal wealth or the banking system.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get distracted by the facade economy that everyone seems to be talking about &#8211; financial institutions. The real economy is personal wealth. If a Fortune 500 company crashes and you don&#8217;t own it, you aren&#8217;t affected. If the banking system implodes and you don&#8217;t own it or deposit in it, you aren&#8217;t affected. If all kinds of big companies and banks topple over, and we all have our personal wealth preserved, then the &#8220;real economy&#8221; (the wealth of the people) has been preserved. Each individual must make the choice between preserving the institutional economy or the people&#8217;s economy. Indecision and inaction is a choice in itself that preserves the institutional economy rather than the people&#8217;s economy.</p>
<p>These are exciting times in that we have all been shaken up enough to think about protecting ourselves, our communities, our friends, and our families. We can thrive by returning to the principles that made us the world&#8217;s most powerful and wealthy country in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nabers</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffnabers.com/2008/10/03/how-to-vote-against-the-bailout/comment-page-1/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nabers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nabersgroup.wordpress.com/?p=331#comment-902</guid>
		<description>Joe &amp; all readers,

It may be very helpful to the big picture perspective to explore the following:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.daveramseyguru.com/see-iousa-movie/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I.O.U.S.A. video clips&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;/2008/08/24/iousa-former-us-controller-warns-countrys-finances-are-unsustainable/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;IOUSA - Former US Controller warns country’s finances are unsustainable&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe &amp; all readers,</p>
<p>It may be very helpful to the big picture perspective to explore the following:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.daveramseyguru.com/see-iousa-movie/" rel="nofollow">I.O.U.S.A. video clips</a></p>
<p><a href="/2008/08/24/iousa-former-us-controller-warns-countrys-finances-are-unsustainable/" rel="nofollow">IOUSA &#8211; Former US Controller warns country’s finances are unsustainable</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joe Connellan</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffnabers.com/2008/10/03/how-to-vote-against-the-bailout/comment-page-1/#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Connellan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nabersgroup.wordpress.com/?p=331#comment-901</guid>
		<description>Too bad there is not &quot;debt methadone&quot;.

It is good to see that we agree on one major point. The problem lies on both sides of the &quot;coin&quot;. We Americans were racking up debt as it were income. We are slowly moving away from the generation where grandma and grandpa would tell their grand kids about the depression, how bad it was during those times, and what it took to survive. That generation knew what the result would be with the exorbitant (understatement) lending practices and accumulation of debt among consumers. We have to learn it ourselves.

Another solution I see to help our future; education. And I do not mean standard education. I mean that each and every high school freshman must take a class on the history of lending, debt, repayment of debt, and consequences of acquiring debt. A cross between world history, economics, and math. I am beginning to see this happen. My brother-in-law, a high school social studies teacher, has put it in his curriculum. Although not supported by the administration, it is a perfect time for Americans to see this as a way to protect our kids, our country, our hard earned money.

Also, it is time to take back our retirement. I am totally a supporter of the Self Directed IRA. Probably due to my occupation. How many fingers are so deep in our cookie jars? How many people are making money off of our money, even with strict SEC rules and regulations? Take back what is yours. Control your money. Use the tax benefits to your advantage and invest like a normal investor without the immediate capital gains. I am not preaching to you. I am screaming at the masses. How many times have you seen a good opportunity and could not take advantage of it because you were not &quot;liquid&quot;. Or maybe you were too afraid to take the penalty. Now is the time to diversify. Fund a business. Buy Real Estate the way you are supposed to, for rental income. See the benefits and talk to someone about why this segment of the investment world is booming.

And as far as my comment about less interest paid if money is moved overseas, the US Government, as we know, does benefit from interest paid to banks indirectly. Buying foreign currency drives the price of said currency up (yes I realize that is very, very good in both aspects of more valuable money paying for less expensive dollar based goods, a win-win there), and I see the benefits of the &quot;weak dollar policy&quot; no one admits that we are under. But, in the end, a mass exodus of cash from the US and into banks overseas will deflate the us economy so fast, that we will not be welcomed into the European Union, we will be BOUGHT into it (facetious). That kind of thinking is on par for the individual, and I am all for protecting yourself. But, unless you are planning on you or your children moving to countries with a stronger economy, please consider the effect that would have for my kids. Do we want the dollar on par with the Russian Ruble (26 Rubles per dollar today). I know, their currency is where it is for different reasons, but at the rate we are going, Russian real estate is looking good for my IRA!

Any way, Pro-American, Pro-Dollar, and no rewards for poor banking practices, on both sides of the coin. God Bless America, while He can......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad there is not &#8220;debt methadone&#8221;.</p>
<p>It is good to see that we agree on one major point. The problem lies on both sides of the &#8220;coin&#8221;. We Americans were racking up debt as it were income. We are slowly moving away from the generation where grandma and grandpa would tell their grand kids about the depression, how bad it was during those times, and what it took to survive. That generation knew what the result would be with the exorbitant (understatement) lending practices and accumulation of debt among consumers. We have to learn it ourselves.</p>
<p>Another solution I see to help our future; education. And I do not mean standard education. I mean that each and every high school freshman must take a class on the history of lending, debt, repayment of debt, and consequences of acquiring debt. A cross between world history, economics, and math. I am beginning to see this happen. My brother-in-law, a high school social studies teacher, has put it in his curriculum. Although not supported by the administration, it is a perfect time for Americans to see this as a way to protect our kids, our country, our hard earned money.</p>
<p>Also, it is time to take back our retirement. I am totally a supporter of the Self Directed IRA. Probably due to my occupation. How many fingers are so deep in our cookie jars? How many people are making money off of our money, even with strict SEC rules and regulations? Take back what is yours. Control your money. Use the tax benefits to your advantage and invest like a normal investor without the immediate capital gains. I am not preaching to you. I am screaming at the masses. How many times have you seen a good opportunity and could not take advantage of it because you were not &#8220;liquid&#8221;. Or maybe you were too afraid to take the penalty. Now is the time to diversify. Fund a business. Buy Real Estate the way you are supposed to, for rental income. See the benefits and talk to someone about why this segment of the investment world is booming.</p>
<p>And as far as my comment about less interest paid if money is moved overseas, the US Government, as we know, does benefit from interest paid to banks indirectly. Buying foreign currency drives the price of said currency up (yes I realize that is very, very good in both aspects of more valuable money paying for less expensive dollar based goods, a win-win there), and I see the benefits of the &#8220;weak dollar policy&#8221; no one admits that we are under. But, in the end, a mass exodus of cash from the US and into banks overseas will deflate the us economy so fast, that we will not be welcomed into the European Union, we will be BOUGHT into it (facetious). That kind of thinking is on par for the individual, and I am all for protecting yourself. But, unless you are planning on you or your children moving to countries with a stronger economy, please consider the effect that would have for my kids. Do we want the dollar on par with the Russian Ruble (26 Rubles per dollar today). I know, their currency is where it is for different reasons, but at the rate we are going, Russian real estate is looking good for my IRA!</p>
<p>Any way, Pro-American, Pro-Dollar, and no rewards for poor banking practices, on both sides of the coin. God Bless America, while He can&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nabers</title>
		<link>http://www.jeffnabers.com/2008/10/03/how-to-vote-against-the-bailout/comment-page-1/#comment-900</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nabers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 05:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nabersgroup.wordpress.com/?p=331#comment-900</guid>
		<description>Joe,

Thanks for the constructive conversation. I think you should note that we are not bailing out Uncle Sam for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact, this talk isn&#039;t about bailing out Uncle Sam; it&#039;s about bailing out privately owned, for-profit banks who are seeing losses. When these large banks are profiting immensely, we American taxpayers (in our entirety) do not get a share of the profits. When these large banks fail (while their officers are getting millions in bonuses) we are now facing being forced to cover their losses.

There is nobody that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This has been a matter of outright fraud. Many Fannie &amp; Freddie employees have come forward explaining that they warned their superiors that their policies and decisions would run their companies into the ground; these clear warnings were ignored.

Regardless of who the debt addict is in a situation (because Uncle Sam is surely as much of a debt addict as broke consumers and broke banks), how do you cure an addict? Would you give a heroin addict heroin because you feel sorry for watching him crash into withdrawals? Or would you allow him the opportunity to become a clean and healthy being?

As for your comment about moving money away from irresponsible institutions, you say this would result in less interest paid. Well deposits into a bank result in two types of interest. First, interest paid to the depositor. If American depositors move to other banks, they will still get interest. The second type of interest would be what the bank earns from lending the money out. If the banks earn less interest because they loan less, you should not be affected unless you own a bank. As for the drying up of loans, this would be a good thing. If the current situation isn&#039;t a crystal clear message against the excessive use of debt, I don&#039;t know what is. Reasonable, non-excessive debt will always be available in our global economy.

Going after the ultra-rich to seize their beach houses, private jets, and Bentleys would carry emotional gratification, but would fall short of solving the problem. Those people played their part, but it takes two to tango. The responsibility lies on us: we should not have been cramming all of our money into the stock market it the first place. We should not have been borrowing money, considering it income, and expecting future loan proceeds to continue. Had we all previously learned about money, inflation, financial statements, debt, and true investing... this entire mess could not have possibly occurred.

The most important thing is this. Let&#039;s look at the consequences of not allowing the debt addiction withdrawals: The weakest financial institutions would get our money. It would be indirect. &quot;Free&quot; money would be given to them, but it would cause our money to lose its value more rapidly than the current 12% per year. The wealth of almost every American person could be mostly wiped out and transferred to elitists within a single decade.

It is patriotic to want America to prosper. The largest embezzlement in world history will surely destroy America - literally. We are faced with the opportunity to help America thrive, and it will require standing by and watching much of our economy squirm around pathetically just like a recovering heroin addict. Only this will give our country the opportunity to become a healthy being again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>Thanks for the constructive conversation. I think you should note that we are not bailing out Uncle Sam for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. In fact, this talk isn&#8217;t about bailing out Uncle Sam; it&#8217;s about bailing out privately owned, for-profit banks who are seeing losses. When these large banks are profiting immensely, we American taxpayers (in our entirety) do not get a share of the profits. When these large banks fail (while their officers are getting millions in bonuses) we are now facing being forced to cover their losses.</p>
<p>There is nobody that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This has been a matter of outright fraud. Many Fannie &amp; Freddie employees have come forward explaining that they warned their superiors that their policies and decisions would run their companies into the ground; these clear warnings were ignored.</p>
<p>Regardless of who the debt addict is in a situation (because Uncle Sam is surely as much of a debt addict as broke consumers and broke banks), how do you cure an addict? Would you give a heroin addict heroin because you feel sorry for watching him crash into withdrawals? Or would you allow him the opportunity to become a clean and healthy being?</p>
<p>As for your comment about moving money away from irresponsible institutions, you say this would result in less interest paid. Well deposits into a bank result in two types of interest. First, interest paid to the depositor. If American depositors move to other banks, they will still get interest. The second type of interest would be what the bank earns from lending the money out. If the banks earn less interest because they loan less, you should not be affected unless you own a bank. As for the drying up of loans, this would be a good thing. If the current situation isn&#8217;t a crystal clear message against the excessive use of debt, I don&#8217;t know what is. Reasonable, non-excessive debt will always be available in our global economy.</p>
<p>Going after the ultra-rich to seize their beach houses, private jets, and Bentleys would carry emotional gratification, but would fall short of solving the problem. Those people played their part, but it takes two to tango. The responsibility lies on us: we should not have been cramming all of our money into the stock market it the first place. We should not have been borrowing money, considering it income, and expecting future loan proceeds to continue. Had we all previously learned about money, inflation, financial statements, debt, and true investing&#8230; this entire mess could not have possibly occurred.</p>
<p>The most important thing is this. Let&#8217;s look at the consequences of not allowing the debt addiction withdrawals: The weakest financial institutions would get our money. It would be indirect. &#8220;Free&#8221; money would be given to them, but it would cause our money to lose its value more rapidly than the current 12% per year. The wealth of almost every American person could be mostly wiped out and transferred to elitists within a single decade.</p>
<p>It is patriotic to want America to prosper. The largest embezzlement in world history will surely destroy America &#8211; literally. We are faced with the opportunity to help America thrive, and it will require standing by and watching much of our economy squirm around pathetically just like a recovering heroin addict. Only this will give our country the opportunity to become a healthy being again.</p>
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